Why?

[Matt]

Why do you think I'm trolling? I assure you I am not. But maybe my assurance doesn't mean anything.


I must have missed the answer, because all the answers I've seen are begging the question. They affirm what is being asked.



I agree with you up until the last point, where the post gets excessively extreme. And at the very least it's certainly not a mindset that occupies our more personal relationships of friendship, love, companionship, etc. We do not makes friends and share interpersonal relationships because at the end of the day everything is "kill or be killed". CS is a game, there's literally ZERO threat to your livelihood by playing it legitimately, or illegitimately, or not at all. These frequent appeals to a very bizzaro-world, and factually false form of evolution and natural selection are....strange.




I find this section a lot more intriguing and happen to agree with you. Thank you. I worry thought that if they cheat to feel like they are good, they are necessarily operating under an illusion - since it's the cheats that are good, not them - and this could have negative consequences, no?



Is this a serious reply? Rape, murder, incest, lying, cheating, stealing, philandering, and suicide, will always be present in society. But certainly we want to cut down on these affairs to the best we can (and there are differences between societies in the rate at which these things occur, so cutting back is possible and doable)? Otherwise you reach absolutely absurd conclusions like, since suicide will always be present, you might as well kill yourself pancakeman (I don't literally mean you should, just rationally that follows). Your stance can be refuted by a reduction to the absurd.

I have no idea how hacking is related to raping and killing. YOU are the one who is confused. We don't appreciate insults. We don't appreciate trolls. This is a community. Not a public vent space. If you wanna get butt hurt and rage against hackers, talk to the anti-cheat providers.

People hack because they can. Using a hack hardly defines what kind of person you are.

[justchecking]

1-10 how butt hurt are you? You actually are so mad you made a account on here to complain. Wow, someone must have really ruined your day.

I don't know what you mean? If you're asking how upset I am, the answer is not upset at all. I believe my post have not been emotionally charged.

What does registering an account have to do with anger? I don't see the necessary connection. I belong to a lot of forums, and registering for forums usually takes anywhere from thirty seconds to two minutes. Why does exerting .30-2:00 minutes of effort demonstrate anger?

[Matt]

This thread is now also moved to the spamboard, where it belongs.

[justchecking]

[QUOTE=Matt][QUOTE=justchecking]

I have no idea how hacking is related to raping and killing. YOU are the one who is confused.

That was in response to this:
"Hacking is always going to be in the game, so if you can't beat them join them "

My point was to show the absurdity of the rational by demonstrating a counter argument that used the same reasoning.
X is always going to take place, so if you can't beat those do X, do X.

If we substitute in rape, murder, or even something less serious like cheating on your spouse, or throwing stones at kittens, you see the absurdity of the formula. So I'm not saying cheating in CS is akin to raping and murdering, I'm saying doing something because it's always being done isn't a legitimate reason for doing that something.

[peesilent]

Many answers and possibilities have been given in this threads. You simply lack the intelligence and/or empathy if you're unable to understand a cheaters mindest. Trying it out yourself will definitely help. We're all human after all. Infact, there comes no real danger (other than a VAC ban) with cheating, so you're clearly a bigot for not giving it a try :^). And a hypocrite on top of that.

What kind of person are you, when your source of satisfaction and joy comes from the harming of others?

It's funny to me how you aren't asking yourself the same question. Just because you win without cheats you think people on the other team are not sad, angry or "harmed"? You're deluding yourself into thinking that your legitimate win is justifying any of the negative consequences for the enemy team, even though you were playing with an advantage, just as a cheater. Getting satisfaction from being better than them, just as a cheater. Sure, being more experienced or having a good day is more reasonable than using hacks, but the end result for the enemy team is mostly the same.

(Video) Games reflect humanity pretty well. Games usually consist of winner(s) and loser(s). Even if cheating in form of external programs would be 100% prevented, this very thread would still exist. And instead of aimbots and wallhacks, you would cry about campers, lurkers and awpers. Remember all the complain posts in the steam forums back then? Or why do you think do some servers still have anti-camp plugins to this very day? Only very few people find joy in losing a game, if barely anyone. And all through time we have always been trimmed to win, fight and overcome the competition in order to survive. Some people go as far to call it a basic human instinct.

Morals and righteousness among other things are all qualities we desperately need in todays society, sure, don't get me wrong. But voicing your opinion on an online sub-board dedicated to Counter-Strike:Global Offensive hacks is not helping the cause. Not the slightest, nada, null, nix.

The problem within lies in the core of humanity as we know it. It took milions if not billions of years to form and shape it. Back when we lived only by the rules of mother nature, which we still occasionally do. And since it's forbbinden to a certain degree in real life, we live it out and have our fun online, where there are barely any bound rules and the consequences are minimal.

Comprehension may be illuminating for the first moment, but it can also backfire if you realize that you can't change things. I think that's your position right now. Give it some time and you will start regretting that you even questioned it.
Or do you really think you can change any of this as the little pawn you are?
You might! Join the reddit armory today, you will hunt down those pesky online cheaters while nodding respectfully toward yourselves and tipping your fedoras.

[Matt]

[QUOTE=justchecking;692693][QUOTE=Matt]

That was in response to this:
"Hacking is always going to be in the game, so if you can't beat them join them "

My point was to show the absurdity of the rational by demonstrating a counter argument that used the same reasoning.
X is always going to take place, so if you can't beat those do X, do X.

If we substitute in rape, murder, or even something less serious like cheating on your spouse, or throwing stones at kittens, you see the absurdity of the formula. So I'm not saying cheating in CS is akin to raping and murdering, I'm saying doing something because it's always being done isn't a legitimate reason for doing that something.

It literally has nothing to do with those things, nor is it as extreme. You are trying to compare something as simple as a computer program to someone losing their life. They are not adequate substitutes for hacking. Sorry.

[justchecking]

You're taking it too literal. Let me be way more specific. Stop assuming that just because a game is boring that it's not important to me. Like you said in the beginning, if i'm playing a game it has to be a motivation to play it, therefore that makes it at least for ME as a person.... important.

To actually answer your question I cheat so I don't have to play 24/7 and that makes me able to get a life. What do I consider getting a "life" to be? Oh well you know just getting a education, job, car, gas, food, house, and any other basic necessity.

Why do I need a cheat so I don't have to play 24/7? Well simple I need to keep up with the average player base.

I've isolated the two predominant premises, since it's from these premises that all your subsequent ones follow, and to be frank I don't understand the initial premises. My experience in CS is that in general matchmaking places you against people of like rank. So you're always playing a player base that's your average. So what's the compulsion to cheat, to play against the average player base, when in fact you play against your average player base when you don't cheat?

Does that make sense?

[QUOTE=Matt;692695][QUOTE=justchecking;692693]

It literally has nothing to do with those things, nor is it as extreme. You are trying to compare something as simple as a computer program to someone losing their life.

No that's not what I'm doing, I'm comparing logical formulations and showing their invalidity.

Here, I'll give a different example to demonstrate my point.
If P, then Q.
P,
Therefore, Q.

Whatever we plug in to P and Q comes out valid. Watch:
If you're a man, than you're mortal.
You're a man.
Therefore, you're mortal.

But it works with silly things too.

If you're a kitten, then you're a shoe.
You're a kitten,
Therefore, you're a shoe. The formula always works for validity, that is, the premises ALWAYS lead to the conclusions. We can trust that logical formulation to deduce necessary - even if false - conclusions.

I don't even need to write the conclusion, and yet rationally you KNOW what it MUST/NECESSARILY be. See:
If you're a lobster, than you're going to get cooked.
You're a lobster.
Therefore you're....... (you see the answer coming).


But the formulation, X has always occurred, therefore we should do X, does not lead to a necessary conclusion. It doesn't matter if we plug in murder, CS cheating, or over indulging in chocolate. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Is that clear? It's not reasonable.

[Matt]

[QUOTE=justchecking;692696]I've isolated the two predominant premises, since it's from these premises that all your subsequent ones follow, and to be frank I don't understand the initial premises. My experience in CS is that in general matchmaking places you against people of like rank. So you're always playing a player base that's your average. So what's the compulsion to cheat, to play against the average player base, when in fact you play against your average player base when you don't cheat?

Does that make sense?

[QUOTE=Matt;692695]

No that's not what I'm doing, I'm comparing logical formulations and showing their invalidity.

Here, I'll give a different example to demonstrate my point.
If P, then Q.
P,
Therefore, Q.

Whatever we plug in to P and Q comes out valid. Watch:
If you're a man, than you're mortal.
You're a man.
Therefore, you're mortal.

But it works with silly things too.

If you're a kitten, then you're a shoe.
You're a kitten,
Therefore, you're a shoe. The formula always works for validity, that is, the premises ALWAYS lead to the conclusions. We can trust that logical formulation to deduce necessary - even if false - conclusions.

But the formulation, X has always occurred, therefore we should do X, does not lead to a necessary conclusion. It doesn't matter if we plug in murder, CS cheating, or over indulging in chocolate. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Is that clear?

What's clear is you're either the worlds best troll, or someone who can't grasp the fact that people hack.

I've accepted the latter.

You just keep wanting to keep things going even though actual hackers told you why they do it.

[justchecking]

Peesilent, your post is openly hostile, invective, and riddled with insults. I'd ask that you extend me the same courteous I've extended to everyone else, i.e., I haven't insulted anyone, I've only tried to understand them. Maybe I've understood incorrectly, but I'd hope through continued discussion we can change that.

In fact only one person actually answered my question. It was TRACKY on page 2. Everyone else has dodged the question, skirted it, deflected, or presumed I'm saying things I'm not.

As far as the hurting someone else without cheating, I tend to agree, but we established on an earlier page that there is a social contract agreement that takes place, of which hacks/cheats are a violation, and undermine reasonable expectations. Finally, there is a difference - as I elaborated on an earlier page - from inadvertently upsetting someone (e.g., by winning a game fairly), and going out of your way to upset someone deliberately (e.g., by cheating to laugh at people who get upset - as other board members claim to do). These distinctions have been brought out several times, but you ignored them in your response, and instead used a series of pejoratives. That's unfortunate.
--------------

"What's clear is you're either the worlds best troll, or someone who can't grasp the fact that people hack.

I've accepted the latter.

You just keep wanting to keep things going even though actual hackers told you why they do it."

This response doesn't make sense. In my opening post I "grasp the fact people hack", and it's because I "grasp the fact people hack", that I asked the subsequent question: "Why do you all hack and ruin the game for other people?" and "What kind of person are you, when your source of satisfaction and joy comes from the harming of others? It's reasonable to presume if someone wanted to inflict pain on you for their pleasure, you'd protest, but because you're the one doing the inflicting, a double standard arises. Why behave this way?"

Those questions are predicated upon the initial acceptance that people hack. If people didn't hack the questions wouldn't make sense. Therefore your post, saying I don't accept that people hack, is itself nonsense. Is this clear?

p.s. I promise I'm not trolling. I'm not a hacker, I'm just asking a very basic question, of which Tracky gave a pretty good answer. And I appreciated that answer (a sign I'm not trolling, since as I understand it, trolls don't appreciate anything).

[Matt]

Peesilent, your post is openly hostile, invective, and riddled with insults. I'd ask that you extend me the same courteous I've extended to everyone else, i.e., I haven't insulted anyone, I've only tried to understand them. Maybe I've understood incorrectly, but I'd hope through continued discussion we can change that.

In fact only one person actually answered my question. It was TRACKY on page 2. Everyone else has dodged the question, skirted it, deflected, or presumed I'm saying things I'm not.

As far as the hurting someone else without cheating, I tend to agree, but we established on an earlier page that there is a social contract agreement that takes place, of which hacks/cheats are a violation, and undermine reasonable expectations. Finally, there is a difference - as I elaborated on an earlier page - from inadvertently upsetting someone (e.g., by winning a game fairly), and going out of your way to upset someone deliberately (e.g., by cheating to laugh at people who get upset - as other board members claim to do). These distinctions have been brought out several times, but you ignored them in your response, and instead used a series of pejoratives. That's unfortunate.
--------------


This response doesn't make sense. In my opening post I "grasp the fact people hack", and it's because I "grasp the fact people hack", that I asked the subsequent question: "Why do you all hack and ruin the game for other people?" and "What kind of person are you, when your source of satisfaction and joy comes from the harming of others? It's reasonable to presume if someone wanted to inflict pain on you for their pleasure, you'd protest, but because you're the one doing the inflicting, a double standard arises. Why behave this way?"

Those questions are predicated upon the initial acceptance that people hack. If people didn't hack the questions wouldn't make sense. Therefore your post, saying I don't accept that people hack, is itself nonsense. Is this clear?

p.s. I promise I'm not trolling. I'm not a hacker, I'm just asking a very basic question, of which Tracky gave a pretty good answer. And I appreciated that answer (a sign I'm not trolling, since as I understand it, trolls don't appreciate anything).

What's clear, is you got you're answer to your main question. "Why do you all hack and ruin the game for other people?" What annoys me, is that after you got answers to THAT question, you made another asking "What kind of people they are" because they hack. Then you decided that none of the answers were relative to said newly made up question.

YOU are the one confusing people enough to not get answers. We don't appreciate insults on our forum, and I don't appreciate you trying to use this " I'm better than you all" attitude. I don't appreciate you lining your comments with venom. We don't look down upon people here. New members who join just to get a rise out of our community shouldn't either. I already expect you to come back with some snotty remark on how none of it is insulting and hurr durr. Truth is, I don't care. Everyone here sees it as you insulting. Therefore people take offense to it.

Now, keep this up and you're on a good way to get this thread closed. You're question has already been answered, as you said yourself.

Is this clear?